Beckwith I will try to find it again, but what I recall reading was that she HAD to give up her US citizenship to live there full time. I've pasted some things I'm finding while searching from where I read that.
Here's one:
Researchers found Barack was adopted by Mr.Soetoro some where around the age of 3, renamed him Barack (Barry) Soetoro and made him a citizen of Indonesia, As his mother also became a citizen of Indonesia.
So when did he Legally change his name back to Obama?
http://megs.blogtownhall.com/ (this would automatically make barack ONLY a citizen of Indonesia as a minor)
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"Responding to Joh Mirse at 1:18 AM
John,
The son of the former Finance Minister under Suhaarto was one of my students for 3 years. His mother would come and stay with me about 4 times a year .
If Soetoro, as a government Employee LIED about Barky having Indonesian Citizenship he would have been completely BLACK BALLED all over SE Asia and the Pacific Rim. The Indonesian are extremely sensitive and protective of their status as citizens, and who can call themsleves citizens.
Believe me Ann Dunham would not have been able to spend 3 more days in Indonesia, never mind most of the rest of her life. And Lolo would have died of something much more drastic than Cirrosis of the Liver, and at a much younger age."
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Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., talks with his sister Maya Soetoro-Ng as they leave a restaurant in Honolulu, Hawaii Monday, Aug. 11, 2008. Sen. Obama is in Hawaii for a vacation.
Photo here: http://www.daylife.com/photo/0eON7ni16MaCr/Soetoro
more of the sister here: http://www.daylife.com/search/photos/all/1?q=Soetoro
regarding the above post, I can add:
However, he also often went to a musalla (Islamic room set aside for prayers) near his house as Barry’s (step)father was a Muslim,” she added (Barry’s house was also located in Hj Ramli Street, where Assisi Primary was). Barry Soetoro enrolled in that school for only two years. Then, he was transferred by both his parents, Ann Dunham and Lolo Soetoro, to Trial Primary (SD Percobaan), Besuki Street, Menteng (now 1st Menteng Public Primary School, or SDN 1 Menteng). In the public school (1970-1971 until his middle of 5th grade), Barry was registered as a pupil of Muslim religion.
Regarding the religion that Barry adheres to, Anis bin Hajj Asmari, 48, the man who had been mandated by Erna, the wife of Lolo Soetoro after his divorce with Ann Dunham, to sell the house they had occupied in the Inner Menteng vicinity, admitted how well acquainted he is with the Soetoro family.
“Barry always went to the neighbourhood musalla every afternoon. Yep, around 4 to 5 pm. Then he always hurried home after that,” he said.
source: http://foreignprophecies.blogspot.com/2008/01/retracing-barack-obamas-footsteps-in.html
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Hmm…
So is this the 2nd Indonesian school BHO attended, or the one we’ve mostly heard about before?
Imo, if this photo is authentic (I assume it is) this settles the issue of whether or not BHO ever had dual citizenship or was Muslim - he DID and WAS!
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I remember reading this in an April WND article:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60559
“… After attending the Assisi Primary School, Obama was enrolled – also as a Muslim, according to documents – in the Besuki Primary School, a public school in Jakarta.
…..
----------------((he could not attend Indo public schools unless he was an Indo citizen))
This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy's religion as Islam.(AP Photo/ Tatan Syuflana)
http://blog.changeandexperience.com/2008/08/barack-obamas-indonesian-registration.html
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After her divorce, (living in Indonesia) Ann started using the more modern spelling of her name, Sutoro. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1729524-6,00.html
Ann's most lasting professional legacy was to help build the microfinance program in Indonesia, which she did from 1988 to '92—before the practice of granting tiny loans to credit-poor entrepreneurs was an established success story. Her anthropological research into how real people worked helped inform the policies set by the Bank Rakyat Indonesia, says Patten, an economist who worked there. "I would say her work had a lot to do with the success of the program," he says. Today Indonesia's microfinance program is No. 1 in the world in terms of savers, with 31 million members, according to Microfinance Information eXchange Inc., a microfinance-tracking outfit.
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ELECTION 2008
Was young Obama Indonesian citizen?
Document, travel suggest 'Barry Soetero' member of world's largest Muslim country
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Posted: August 17, 2008
8:18 pm Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Indonesian school registration for "Barry Soetoro" (AP photo)
JERUSALEM – Was Sen. Barack Obama a citizen of Indonesia at any point in his life?
That question has been circulating on the blogosphere with increased fury the past few days, since a photograph emerged of Obama's school registration papers as a child in Indonesia – the world's most populous Muslim nation – showing the presidential candidate listed as a "Muslim" with "Indonesian" citizenship.
An investigation into Indonesian citizenship law and a review of Obama's biography and travels suggest the Illinois senator at one point may have been a citizen of Indonesia. That would not necessarily disqualify Obama to run for president, but it could raise loyalty concerns.
A 2007 Associated Press photograph taken by Tatan Syuflana, an Indonesian AP reporter and photographer, surfaced last week on the Daylife.com photographic website showing an image of Obama's registration card at Indonesia's Fransiskus Assisi school, a Catholic institution.
In the picture, Obama is registered under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. His religion is listed as Muslim.
Jack Stokes, manager of media relations for the AP, confirmed to WND the picture is indeed an AP photo.
Afer attending the Assisi Primary School, Obama later was enrolled at SDN Menteng 1, an Indonesian public school.
Obama's campaign did not return repeated WND phone calls and e-mail queries the past week asking for a clarification regarding the school documentation listing the presidential candidate's citizenship as Indonesian.
Obama spokesmen have stated the candidate is a natural-born citizen amid rumors he may have been born in his father's home country of Kenya, but the campaign has not addressed whether Obama became a citizen of Indonesia at any point.
Obama's American mother, Ann Dunham, separated from her first husband, Barack Obama Sr., in 1963 when the presidential candidate was two years old. Dunham and Obama Sr. are reported to have later divorced. Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian, and moved to Indonesia sometime between 1966 and 1967.
It was not clear whether Soetoro adopted Obama, either in Hawaii or in Indonesia, but there is strong circumstantial evidence that he did as far as Indonesian law was concerned.
In Indonesia, which was under tight rule in 1967, Obama clearly took on the last name of his stepfather in school registration documents. All Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards, or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, which needed to bear the student's legal name, which should be matched in public school registration filings.
Following his enrollment at the private Assisi school, Obama attended public schooling in Indonesia until he returned to Hawaii at age 10. According to Indonesian legal experts, it was difficult to enroll non-Indonesian citizens in public schooling.
Obama arrived in Indonesia at about the age of five according to most accounts, although it was possible he arrived at the age of six, according to a few sources. If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the country's laws in the 1960's, which stipulated any child aged five or younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian citizenship upon completion of the adoption process.
Lolo Soetoro could have adopted Obama in Hawaii, although such an adoption would not have necessarily been recognized by Indonesia.
Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen.
In a revelation that raised a few eyebrows, Obama last April disclosed he traveled as a college student to Pakistan in 1981.
"I traveled to Pakistan when I was in college – I knew what Sunni and Shia was [sic] before I joined the Senate Foreign Relations Committee," Obama reportedly stated at a fundraising event.
The senator had not previously discussed any trip to Pakistan, either in his books or in scores of policy talks regarding Pakistan.
Prompted by Obama's statements, ABC News contacted the presidential candidate's campaign, which affirmed that in 1981 – the year Obama transferred from Occidental College to Columbia University – Obama visited his mother and sister Maya in Indonesia. Obama then went on to Pakistan with a friend from college whose family was from that country, the campaign said.
Obama was in Pakistan for about three weeks, said the campaign, staying with his friend's family in Karachi and also visiting Hyderabad in Southern India.
Pakistan in 1981 was under military rule. It was difficult for U.S. citizens to travel to the country without assistance. It would have been easier for someone to enter Pakistan on an Indonesian passport.
If Obama indeed possessed Indonesian citizenship as a child, it is unlikely he retains such citizenship. The country's bylaws require any Indonesian citizen living abroad for more than five years to formally declare his intention to return, otherwise risk losing his citizenship status. The law does not necessarily mean Indonesian citizenship would be immediately lost. The law can be overruled by ministerial order.
Obama's registration in Indonesia under the name "Barry Soetoro" also raises questions as to whether he adopted that name in the U.S. at any time. According to Illinois state filings, when Obama registered as an attorney in 1991, under the name Barack Obama, he stated he did not have any former names.
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I met Ann Sutoro when I was working for Asian Business magazine and interviewing people for a cover story on what the private sector can do to help alleviate poverty. She was an economic anthropologist working for Bank Rakyat Indonesia, the rural development bank of the country. She was in charge of the bank's microfinance program.
From her office in Jakarta, Ann would pick out an impoverished village somewhere in the country. She'd travel there, spend several weeks getting to know the place, getting to know the movers and shakers in the village, who had the brightest entrepreneurial spirit, the best ideas. About 95% of the time the people she came up with were women. Then she'd go back to Jakarta and write up a report.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/carolesknoxtn/gGB7fV
((SHE LIVED AND WORKED IN INDONESIA FOR AN INDONESIAN BANK.......SHE HAD TO HAVE BEEN A CITIZEN OF INDONESIA HERSELF))
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http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/the-paper-trail-obamas-indonesian-background/
Here are some excerpts about Indonesian Adoption.
“Foreign persons under age of five who are adopted by Indonesian Citizens obtain Indonesian Citizenship following legalization of adoption process by District Court of general jurisdiction with jurisdiction over adoptive parents [Id at Art. 2 (1)]“
And:
“It is stipulated that an adopted child has the same status as a natural child, and that his or her relationship to the birth parents is severed by adoption”
And:
“Article 2: on the condition of ratification of the adoption by the District Court:
The law stipulates that children of mixed couples automatically assume their father’s citizenship, and a divorced wife cannot take custody of her children because they have different citizenship.”
And:
“The principles upon which one holds Indonesian Citizenship are universally known.
The first principle, ius sanguinis, states that a person’s citizenship, regardless of where they were born, is dependent upon the citizenship of their parents.
The second principle, ius soli, determines citizenship on a person’s birthplace.”
Note that in Indonesian Law the Jus Sanguinis principle comes first (Jus and Ius are alternate spellings) and Jus Soli second, which is to say that it is the direct reverse of US Law. Under this reading of the Law he would be firmly in the Jus Sanguinis bracket.
Now in my original article I made a statement which I believed to be true but which wasn’t quite. In Indonesia the Law says, or seems to say, that one cannot adopt a child over the age of five. The Law says:
“Foreign persons under age of five who are adopted by Indonesian Citizens obtain Indonesian Citizenship following legalization of adoption process by District Court of general jurisdiction with jurisdiction over adoptive parents [Id at Art. 2 (1)]“
Now while Indonesia does not allow children over the age of five to be adopted, so far as I can tell, it does recognize that other countries do so. There is a provision covering that:
“A foreign child aged below 21 and unmarried, who is adopted by an Indonesian, will be eligible for Indonesian citizenship if the process does not cause dual citizenship.”
So it is possible to adopt a child abroad under the Laws of another country, for example the USA, and that child could be of any age. But, you say, if you adopt an American child that IS causing Dual Citizenship. In the real world the rest of us live in, yes, but in Indonesian Law:
“his or her relationship to the birth parents is severed by adoption”
So we find ourselves back at:
“It is stipulated that an adopted child has the same status as a natural child”
The adoptee becomes an Indonesian Citizen if the father is an Indonesian, a Muslim if the father is Muslim, etc. Obviously in terms of how this Law acts and interacts with other Laws, the age of the child becomes functionally irrelevant.
The Indonesian Code has a section which looks a lot like 8 USC 1401:
“Indonesian citizenship is given to:
A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman — the status of which does not cause dual citizenship…”
[See End Note 1 for rest of this section]
This list ignores adopted children but consider:
“It is stipulated that an adopted child has the same status as a natural child, and that his or her relationship to the birth parents is severed by adoption”
This would put Obama, if adopted, into category (2) above (born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman — the status of which does not cause dual citizenship), and all of the statements about Dual Nationality become simply double speak because if another Legal System says you have another Nationality, you do the minute you leave Indonesian Territory, Territorial Waters or Airspace. That you do not have Dual Nationality, according to Indonesian Law, becomes a mere technicality.
Now those of you who read my previous Articles will probably have realized the implications of these Legal Passages. Previously I had made certain basic assumptions about dates which would not, in fact, REQUIRE to be correct, which is not to say that they weren’t.
The original thesis, based on my original reading of Law No 62/1958, was that Soetoro would have needed to adopt the boy before he was five, which based on the text of “Dreams of my Father”, still seems likely. BUT if the adoption took place in Hawaii, under US Law, he could have been older than five. Indonesian Law would still go into effect as soon as he arrived in Indonesia.
The acute reader will realize that this would mean a paper trail in the State of Hawaii because if the Adoption took place under Chapter 578 of the Hawaii State Code the following sections would have been followed:
www.capitol.hawaii.gov
A fairly large paper trail, actually, and particularly interesting are these sections:
§578-13 Change of name. The court may fix or change the given name and the family name of an adoptive minor child to the name stipulated by the adoptive parents or that name which is in the best interest of the child….”
Case Notes
Change of family name is mandatory. 45 H. 69, 361 P.2d 1054.”
§578-14 Record of adoption.] (a) A certified copy of the decree of adoption, or a certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department of health, after the decree has become effective, shall be sent to the department. The department shall cause to be made a new record of the birth in the name of the individual, as fixed or changed by the decree, with the names of the adoptive parents and, upon request of both adoptive parents, or the sole adoptive parent if there is only one, that the name or names of either or both of the natural parents appear on the certificate, with the name of a natural parent who consents to be named on the certificate.
(b) If a new birth certificate is issued, the original birth certificate shall be sealed and filed with the decree or the abstract thereof, and the sealed package shall be opened only as provided in section 578-15(b)….”
[See End Note 2 for language on out-of-state births]
All that I can say about this is that it gives me a very strong interest in seeing the Senator’s Birth Certificate, and I think it probably has the same effect on you.
Because it would appear that in the State of Hawaii you can have more than one Birth Certificate, if you happen to have been Adopted.
All I will say is this there exists a possibility that the Birth Certificate on File in Hawaii contains information other than that which appears on the Document that we have all seen. If it does and if it lists Father’s Name as Lolo Soetoro and the Senator’s Surname as Soetoro he has some explaining to do. It would tend to suggest that he possesses, or possessed, a copy of his Original Certificate of Live Birth and that he has been using that in place of his amended Certificate of Live Birth. I do not know if that is Illegal but I shall try to find out.
You may also find “§578-15 Secrecy of proceedings and records” interesting but I find this section more interesting still:
Ҥ578-16 Effect of adoption. (a) A legally adopted individual shall be considered to be a natural child of the whole blood of the adopting parent or parents as provided in the Uniform Probate Code, relating to the descent of property.
(b) The former legal parent or parents of an adopted individual and any other former legal kindred shall not be considered to be related to the individual as provided in the Uniform Probate Code except as provided in this section.”
[See End Note 3 for remainder of this section]
In short the Hawaiian Legal Code and the Indonesian Legal Code read for all intents and purposes identically.
This Link will take you to a .pdf file of the Hawaiian Form for Change of Name. The process looks to be simple enough. Again, of course it leaves a paper trail.
www.hawaii.gov
How many times has he changed his name, if I’m right? I don’t know — more than once anyway, that’s a certainty. Are any of his papers in the correct name? I don’t know, but if they aren’t he could lose everything.
These factors taken together can hardly do other than cause someone to suspect there might be reason to think there is a paper trail in the Hawaiian Archives and possibly a large one.
You may care, at this point, to Google US Code: Title 18 § 4. Misprision of felony. It seems to me that if one is aware that a fraud is being perpetrated and does nothing about it this applies. In New York State, of course, misprision also covers “intent to cause a false impression.”, hmm. “Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea”, look it up folks. And while you are at it look up “mens rea”. Try wikipedia, maybe. The US Code also contains Misprision of Treason, I think, hmm.
In Part 2 of the first Article I discussed why I think Senator Obama was an Indonesian Citizen when he was young. Now I want to venture into the far more troubled waters of exactly why I think he still could be.
IF I am correct in my assumption that Senator Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, and I don’t see an alternative that fits, he would have been an Indonesian Citizen until he was 21 years old, unless he made a formal Renunciation. But Indonesia is not Kenya and you do not AUTOMATICALLY lose citizenship, at any point. In fact Indonesian Law reads a lot like US Law. There exist strict rules about Loss of Citizenship once you have it. Like INA 1952 and subsequent US Code Law Indonesia has Expatriating Clauses in its Law:
“Indonesian citizens can lose their nationality under certain conditions. These include:
a)Naturalization in another country.
b) Joining the Military, or Civil, Service of another country.
c) Living outside of the Republic of Indonesia for a consecutive period of five years without declaring the intention to remain an Indonesian Citizen.
However all of these grounds may be overridden by ministerial order.”
Note the all important word “CAN”, not “Will”, or “Shall”. I checked this against a Dutch version; Dutch differentiates in the same way as English between these words. The first Dutch version said the same thing as the English; a second Dutch version gave the reading of “it is possible for”.
In other words as with US Law you would not necessarily lose your Citizenship by doing any of these things if there was no Court Action and if the Indonesian Government did not wish to act in the matter for some reason. I had previously assumed that this was automatic expatriation, it isn’t.
Asep Wijaya gives this warning:
“Be advised that all Indonesians living overseas must register their presence with the nearest Indonesian consular office. The penalty if you do not do this within two years of your arrival is certain complications in the renewal of passports, and could even entail loss of Indonesian citizenship.”
Again notice the use of “could” not “will”, or “should”. In other words it does not necessarily happen, it is simply a possibility.
If you do not deliberately expatriate yourself and if you do not indulge in conduct obnoxious to the Indonesian Government there is no specific reason whereby you would lose Citizenship, once you have it. It might be very difficult to renew your passport but that would be as far as it went.
According to the Indonesian Consulate General in Chicago, Indonesian passports need to be renewed every five years. At the same time you can change the name on your passport by handing over copies of the appropriate documents.
www.indonesiachicago.org
Oddly I didn’t set out to find the Consulate General in Chicago when I looked up
passprt regulations; it was simply the first thing that came up. As I say, odd. There is also a Consulate in Honolulu, and Consulates General in New York and Los Angeles, among other places.
According to Ko Swan Sik, page 156, all that an individual would need to do to retain Nationality while living abroad would be to regularly visit a Consulate to renew one’s passport and, at that time, express the intention to remain an Indonesian Citizen.
In short I have no means of knowing whether or not Senator Obama is currently an Indonesian Citizen. I only know that he shouldn’t be, but he could be either by action or inaction. Only the Government of Indonesia could deprive him of Citizenship if he did not choose to Renounce it.
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/the-paper-trail-obamas-indonesian-background/
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